“Even without the fear and anxiety, would this be something I would like to be able to do?” – Andy Molinsky

com·fort zone

/ˈkəmfərt zōn/

noun

A place or situation where one feels safe or at ease and without stress.

Sure. Feeling safe and at ease is great and all, but what goals have you ever achieved by staying in your comfort zone??

 

We’re willing to bet on not many at all.

 

Nobody ever achieves much by staying in their comfort zone.

 

WHY?

 

Well, achieving goals requires you to aim for something just a little bit out of your reach.

 

Having a goal makes you look forward to something attainable that may not be in your comfort zone (at the moment).

 

Then the question of how and when to reach out of our comfort zones comes up.

 

When it comes to career change, more likely than not you’ll be faced with the choice to break out of your comfort zone to progress down a new path that may be full of unknowns.

 

For instance, in order to continue down your new career path you may need to put yourself out there to learn more about a new industry by attending networking events or making cold calls to connect with new people from an organization that you want to work in and that may be something you’re not comfortable or experienced in.

 

Or maybe during an interview you’re asked to present a project plan and you hate public speaking, or you have a new role at a company and you’re asked to participate in meetings when you’re more of an observant introvert…it can be anything, it’s a challenge for many of us to get out of our comfort zones.

 

Before we get to solution, let’s first address the issue of why it is so hard for many of us to reach out of our comfort zones.

 

What is holding you back from breaking through your comfort zone to reach your goals?

 

There are 5 psychological road blocks that stand in our way to break through the barriers of our comfort zones.

When we are able to identify and understand what is holding us back, we can embrace those reasons and begin to open the door to dip our toes into situations that stretch our comfort levels.

 

Authenticity

Many people may feel like some situations that require them to step out of their comfort zones make them feel like that isn’t who they truly are and are left feeling like a poser.

 

Likability

Oftentimes we may worry that people won’t like this ‘new’ version of ourselves. Maybe you won’t like who you have to become when you step out of your comfort zone.

 

Competence

We may doubt our own abilities when we decide to stretch beyond what we know. The doubts then turn to self-sabotaging thoughts of looking like a fool.

 

Resentment

We can get annoyed and frustrated at the fact that we are even asked to reach beyond our comfort. You may think, “Why can’t I just do good work? Why don’t my qualities/qualifications work? Why do I even need to step out of my comfort zone at all?”

 

Morality

Sometimes we may get the sense that leaving our comfort zone just feels wrong. It begins to feel like you’re going in a direction that bumps up against your own moral compass.

 

 

How do you work through these psychological barriers?

 

If you’re feeling any of these feelings when you are in a situation that requires you to try something new outside of what you’ve always been comfortable with, it is okay.

 

Acknowledge that leaving the known for something new can be nerve-wrecking for anyone.

 

 Don’t panic. Move on to the next step of breaking down the fear and anxiety that begins to creep in by determining if is this new situation is going to be worth your effort.

 

How to tell when you need to reach out of your comfort zone? When is it worth it?

 

Evaluate your outcome

Ask yourself: Would this be something that I would like to be able to do?

If it is something that you REALLY want to do, then it is valuable and worth it to step outside of your comfort zone.

If it isn’t really your thing even without the worry and anxiety, then that is a fine conclusion. But don’t rule out moving forward completely.

Maybe this new situation just requires you to find someone else to help you work on whatever skill you need to grow.

This will help you stretch out of your comfort zone to add to your life experience, so down the road you’ll be able to achieve more, if that’s where your path leads you.

Ways to reach beyond your comfort zone to achieve your goals

 

Identify and Embrace Your Conviction (Your sense of purpose/drive)

Why is it worth it to you?

It can be professional – something that you’ve always wanted to do or work on. Or your conviction can be personal – making a difference in the world.

When you take the time to really identify what is driving you to make a decision to step out of your comfort zone, you’ll be able to weigh your options on whether or not this is something that you really want to pursue.

 

Customization

You can take any situation that you’re uncomfortable with and put your own style/spin to it to fit you specifically.

For example, if you struggle with sales – selling a product or selling your skills and knowledge during a networking event, do whatever you can to make it feel more authentic to you.

You can change the language of your pitch that feels right for you.

What we have found in our coaching is that many people are stuck in their own self-limitations AKA comfort zones because they can’t quite figure out how to get a solid footing in the direction they want to take their career.

They box themselves in their comfort zones and lose sight of their drive to change their situations.

Our world-class coaches are one of the many resources that can help guide you along your career transition from the beginning to help you identify your career path. Our coaches will be there to provide you with the support you need every step of the way, even when you hit a psychological roadblock.

Head on over to www.happentoyourcareer.com/coaching to work with one of our coaches to help you build on your career foundation to achieve your new career goals!

Transcript from Episode

Scott Barlow: welcome back to Happen to Your Career. I am so very excited to have our guest on today because he delves into what stops many HTYCers that are listening right now: Getting outside your comfort zone. We are going to talk about his expertise and what you can do about it, but first welcome Andy to Happen to Your Career. Glad to have you.

Andy Molinsky: Thanks for having me. Happy to be here.

Scott Barlow: I’m curious because you do a variety of things but when someone asks you what you do now how do you answer that?

Andy Molinsky: It’s a good question. It probably depends who asks me. At this point in my career I’m a professor. For parts of the year I teach undergrad and graduate students and MBA students. Increasingly over the past five to seven years I’ve done consulting, executive education, keynote speaking, a lot of writing – a lot of nonacademic writing for general audiences for ink.com, Psychology Today, Harvard Business Review, and LinkedIn. I’ve written a couple of books. I pick my kids up from school a lot, so I suppose I have a part time bus driving job. That was a joke

Scott Barlow: I’m right there with you. It’s not on my resume but I’m going to add it because I love doing that exact thing. Part time bus driver, done.

Andy Molinsky: I coach my son’s soccer team. I do a lot of things. I do mentoring and coaching. A grab bag of things that’s evolved over time.

Scott Barlow: I’m curious, since it has evolved, where did it start for you because you didn’t pop out of the womb as a professor. How did you initially become interested in what you do and what was your path?

Andy Molinsky: There are probably two different phases. The first was how did I become interested in organizational behavior and psychology and the second phase is how has my career developed since then. The first one, basically started after college, where I majored in international relations, which was the thing you major in when you don’t know what you want to major in. I knew I was interested in international things. I liked languages and thought it was cool but didn’t know what I wanted to do. My junior year I went to Spain which was outside my comfort zone. I was terrified. This was before the internet. I had never been anywhere or out of the country or seen pictures even. In those days it was a bigger deal. It was a scary experience but once I got over the threshold it was amazing and eye opening. There was this other world over there where they got along fine speaking a different language and doing cool stuff. I could try to learn the language and it was fascinating. I become interested in cross cultural communication.

I came back to college and then went to graduate school right away and completed a Master’s program in international business. It was a two-year program and one year in I realized two things: First, I wanted to do more international stuff and second I didn’t know anything about business. I took a leave of absence between the two years and went to France and worked for a French consulting company. I learned French and I had a foreign experience that was fantastic. It was there I became interested in psychology and organizational behavior and cross-cultural communication. My actual job was boring doing customer satisfaction surveys for industrial companies in Europe. Massively boring. However, it was just a year and a chance to go abroad. I kept a diary open on my computer, in the early days of computers. The diary had stuff I was observing in the office and of the people.

When I came back to Columbia University I was trying to figure out what it all was. It was social psychology and organizational behavior. I didn’t know that then. I ultimately found it out by taking courses and became inspired to get a PhD in it. I got a PhD in organizational behavior and psychology. I loved it. I learned to research and the field. My dissertation was on Russian immigrants learning to interview and network for jobs. They were desperate to get jobs because they didn’t have much funding, maybe 20 months of funding for their families. They had to learn to switch their cultural behaviors, but they struggled with it. That was what my dissertation was about. Essentially acting outside your cultural comfort zone.

Scott Barlow: Interesting and not just because I have a 140 page google doc that served as a diary for my days in HR but also interesting in terms of your fascination with the cross-cultural piece because there is so much there that transcends beyond cross-cultural.

Andy Molinsky: Yes, for my first seven or eight years as a professor – if you are professor at a major research university which I was, initially at the University at Southern California and now at Brandeis in Boston. They are both major research universities. You need to write academic articles and become well known for your area of expertise. Publish enough and of enough quality that your peers decide you are worthy of tenure; a job for life. That was my narrow focus for eight to nine years. Exclusively doing that.

I didn’t come into this PhD having studied or worked in labs in college. I came from the real-world experience. I wanted to circle back and speak to regular people and make an impact in the world but for a while I had to burrow down and do the true full on academic thing. I got tenure seven or eight years ago or maybe more than that and at that point, this is your career shift, I didn’t make a massive shift, but pivoted. I anticipated it, because once you have tenure you have a job for life and can be independent in what you do. I still do academic research but now spend a lot more time doing academic research as R&D for products such as articles, books, and training programs that make a difference in people lives. I knew I wanted to do that but had to do the first steps to get there.

Scott Barlow: I’m curious about that. What are some examples of a way you were able to use those as R&D?

Andy Molinsky: R&D I use loosely. It’s the idea. I’m a columnist at ink.com and wrote like 50 articles for Harvard Business Review. I know the field of organizational behavior and social psychology. Not everything, but I have a good grounding. When I think of something to write that I’m inspired about by something in the real world I have a way of understanding it academically and then translating it to regular person speak so it is digestible. I have a good academic base. Very specifically, more R&D for my new book “Reach” that we will talk about, was research I did personally. It’s a direct translation of my research and then others are where I understand the field and thinking – an academically scholar way of thinking. It gives you precision and validity. The bad thing about academics or challenge is it is esoteric, jargon filled, and limited in scope. If you can leverage the positive parts of academics and combine them with an eye and orientation towards the real world it’s a benefit.

Scott Barlow: Before we hit the record button I was describing that a lot of people reach out that have books or their publicists reach out. Originally, we became interested in you because of that book. We had to have a conversation with you because as I read through the book you do a phenomenal job taking the research and combining it with very palatable ways to understand and be relevant for anyone. I appreciated that and I think that is part of what you are saying.

Andy Molinsky: I appreciate that. I’m a fairly simple guy and want to understand things really clearly. If I pride myself on anything it is the ability to take complex topics and make them not simplistic, but simple.

Scott Barlow: I’m curious, and want to dive back. What part of France were you in?

Andy Molinsky: Paris.

Scott Barlow: my family and I just spent a month living there. What years were you there?

Andy Molinsky: In the early 90s. I’ve traveled back and forth quite a bit. Less now with kids. But lived there early 90s.

Scott Barlow: Cool and you are right. Going to another country or any place outside your comfort zone is a different ballgame at this point with google maps and Airbnb. It’s different certainly. Absolutely loved Paris. It’s interesting you were there. We were thrilled to pieces. It was outside our comfort zone as a family because we took our kids too. We even spent time in Portugal. Minus the google maps, talk about getting yourself outside of your comfort zone. Which is what I hope to delve into. Which brings us to our next topic.

I love that there have been different parts of your life where you have been able to get yourself well outside of your comfort zone. Clearly the overseas trips are one of them. The other thing I really like is that you have been intentional about looking back and observing where that was the case and combining these things for research and making it palatable. I’d love to go into that. First, why is it so hard for most of us to get outside of our comfort zones?

Andy Molinsky: I should say a word about who I talked to for this book because I combined research and my own insights, but I also talked to people from all walks of life and professions – managers, executives, doctors, teachers, rabbis, priests, stay at home moms who were getting back into the work force, and a goat farmer. All sorts for people. I found that across all the stories it boiled down to five psychological road blocks. You won’t always experience all of them but I heard them time and time again. See if they resonate. I should also say that when we talk about getting out of your comfort zone I like to get specific like walking into the networking situation where you know you need to do it to get that career opportunity, or making the cold call, participating the meeting, speaking up in public, delivering bad news, whatever it might be. I like to focus on specific moments.

The first challenge is authenticity. The idea that stepping outside my comfort zone doesn’t feel like me. Quite literally it isn’t because you are stepping out of your comfort zone. It is really hard. Here is an example. I interviewed a bunch of young entrepreneurs who had product ideas and wanted to start a business but had to do many things outside their comfort zone like pitching their ideas to venture capitalists who were much older and experienced; Sort of like a shark tank situation. They had to put on their grown-up voice and a suit and tie and they felt like total posers and inauthentic.

I think of my own experience stepping into a classroom for the first time. You don’t learn to teach when you get a PhD. You learn a little but not much. You learn to do research. I remember stepping into the classroom the first day, a long time ago, and I opened the door and thought who am I to be doing this. Someone said “hi professor” and I looked behind me to see who they were talking to. That is authenticity.

The next challenge is likeability. The worry that people won’t like this version of me. Maybe I won’t like this version. People might even hate this version if I do this thing outside my comfort zone like being more assertive. I think they expect me to be different. Likeability challenge. If I have to network people will think I’m a sleazy jerk, if I have to beg and ask a favor.

Competence is a third challenge. The fear you will look and feel like a fool. You aren’t good at this and you feel it. Sometimes I like to think about authenticity and competence as a combo to create what some people call the “imposter syndrome.”

A fourth is resentment. Logically you know you need to adapt but psychologically you are resentful and annoyed, like why can’t my qualifications count? Why do I have to schmooze and make small talk and go play golf with these people? Why can’t I just do good work? A lot of introverts have resonated with that idea and they feel deep resentment that they have to accommodate to the extroverted world of work in which we really live. There are other examples.

The final is morality. There aren’t as many examples but I still found a bunch. The idea that when I act out of my comfort zone in this situation it feels wrong and bumps against my moral compass.

You don’t feel authenticity, likeability, competence, resentment and moral challenges every time but any one of these can make it hard to step outside your comfort zone.

Scott Barlow: Here is the question I had reading and thinking about that. Many people might hear and think about these things. I’m curious how you reconcile or tease apart what is going to be good growth that is simply uncomfortable versus the opposite, the things that are not ever going to be authentic to you or probably don’t center around your natural strengths, that won’t ever fall into your competence areas. How do you tease those out?

Andy Molinsky: In terms of the first piece what I suggest is trying a thought exercise. Imagine yourself in a situation, if I could erase with my magic wand the anxiety and fear I face, would it be something I would like to be able to do? It’s an interesting thought exercise. I you can do that exercise and conclude that starting a small company is something I really want to do and always have. It terrifies me but I’ve always wanted to, then I think its valuable and worth it to apply what I talk in the book and step outside your comfort zone. There are solid tools you can use.

If the answer is no, not really, even if could erase the anxiety and fear I don’t care about it so much or it’s not my thing. Let’s say you are afraid of making sales. If you could erase the anxiety and worry but still say I’m just not interested in doing it frankly; I just don’t want to do it, then that is a fine conclusion. But I don’t think that’s a reason to not start a business, you can outsource or partner with someone. You don’t want to use it as a justification to not doing something if it might be a legitimate thing you don’t care to focus on.

Remind me the second part of your question.

Scott Barlow: You answered the whole thing. That was fantastic. I was interested in helping people think about how to separate out which are going to be good directions for me that are uncomfortable that I need to experience growth in versus those that are really uncomfortable but don’t align with who I am or the direction I want to go. I really like your suggestion of evaluating the outcome that you want and if that is something you legitimately are interested in, and you conclude you want it then it is worth it to go the path through the discomfort.

Andy Molinsky: That is well stated. The other piece is I don’t think everyone should always stretch outside their comfort zone in every situation. It’s not full throttle. That is unrealistic and unwise. I think about it in terms of stock portfolios as an analogy. We have our own portfolios of situations. Some are in our comfort zones and some are in out of our comfort zones. We have portfolios of where situations are for us. Maybe we want to move a few and try some outside our comfort zones. They change over time due to our life experience and maturity. Mine has changed after having kids. I don’t think it’s unrealistic that some will be in your comfort zone where you want them. The problem is where you have legitimate ambitions you really want to do but your fear and anxiety is holding you back. That is where this is relevant.

Scott Barlow: I feel that is a great opportunity for a basic graph. Maybe you had one in your book and I missed it but I feel like there is a simple graph showing these are the areas you focus on for intentional discomfort and these are the areas that you don’t worry about because it’s outside of what you want.

Andy Molinsky: I don’t have that graph but we should mock it up.

Scott Barlow: We can make it happen. I love frameworks for making decisions and I ‘m ultimately hoping people will take that away. I think you just described a framework stating going out there and experiencing tons of discomfort isn’t necessarily the right way to go but a much better way would be to do what you described. Evaluate the outcome and whether discomfort holding you back. If so, those are the places you may want to experience it.

On that note I’m curious, what are some ways people can actually move through that? It’s one thing to say here are areas I need to get better at like public speaking or discomfort of sales, or insert your thing. How do I do that? What can I use to do that? You talk in specifics which I appreciate so maybe we can use examples that pop up a lot. How can I do those things?

Andy Molinsky: Absolutely. It’d be an awful book of ideas if I stopped at the problem. A lot of books you read don’t stop at the problem but they are heavy on the problem and light on the solutions. I didn’t want to do that. Here is what I found for people who successfully stepped outside their comfort zone.

What did they have in common? The first thing is conviction. Like a deep sense of purpose. What is in it for you? Why is it worth addressing and fighting through the discomfort? It’s the drive of purpose to take action despite discomfort. People’s source of discomfort was in two buckets.

One was professional. I’ve always wanted to be a small business owner and yes there are aspects that are really hard but it’s something I’ve always wanted to do. I’ve always wanted to be a leader. Insert what you’ve always wanted to be or really care about and what you want to do. That is a professional source. Sometimes it’s very personal like making a difference in the world or helping certain people. For me one of my biggest sources of conviction is my role as a dad and as a parent. I have a ten and a twelve-year-old and I’m trying to smartly coax them outside their comfort zones. If I’m asking them to be brave but I’m not stepping outside my comfort zone it’s not the dad I want to be. Wherever your conviction comes from identify it and embrace it.

Scott Barlow: I want to ask about that for a second because you tapped on something I find myself using as a crutch. My oldest is nine, and you can let me know what is coming. We have family rules and one is to try new things. It’s getting outside your comfort zone on a regular basis. I find myself taking actions in some cases I probably wouldn’t have otherwise except to fulfill what I want to be as a role model for my kids. I’m curious how much you sought those types of things where you step into where you want to be as that role model. Where else does that show up outside of parenting?

Andy Molinsky: I think parenting is complementary. It’s not like I’m going to jump off the cliff just to show my kids. Though for some people that is meaningful. If their kid is struggling in certain ways. It gets complicated. I found on the family side it is an extra added boost. I mostly interviewed people about professional situations. It had to do with professional/personal ambition. It’s something I’ve always wanted to do and I know it’ll make me feel good about myself. It will help me help others. This is my calling. That is rare but it happens. Some source of conviction because if you don’t have it it is hard to fight through your comfort zone because you don’t have purpose.

Scott Barlow: Did you see people intentionally using those sources of conviction to create stakes for themselves?

Andy Molinsky: Like to pressure themselves?

Scott Barlow: Yeah like going back to the parenting example I find myself in some cases intentionally setting myself up. This might sound odd, but I take my kids every Saturday to a place I work out that is very strength training and parkour based, which sounds like an odd combination to the average person. Parkour can be acrobatic. There are somethings I’m scared to do. If I have my kids as an audience I feel that extra pressure and motivation to do some of the things with them watching. It’s an obscure example.

Andy Molinsky: It’s an interesting example. I don’t see it as a crutch because that implies a pejorative sense. I don’t see it as a bad thing necessarily. As long as it’s not exposing them to something they shouldn’t be exposed to. It doesn’t seem that way. It seems like it could be part of your conviction or what we are about to talk about which is customization.

Scott Barlow: Let’s go down that road.

Andy Molinsky: Customization was the most surprising, interesting and powerful aspect I found. I found it time and time again. Once you start to see it you see it everywhere. The idea is like buying a pair of pants. Very few people buy them off the shelf and wear them and are good to go. Many of us have them shortened, lengthened, or tweaked so they fit us better. That is an analogy because you can take a situation, even an uncomfortable one, and you can find a way to put your own personal spin or twist on it to make it a little more comfortable and authentic. There are so many interesting ways that people customize their situation through all sorts of things: Body language, timing, language, staging, context, props. For example, let’s talk about an example spontaneously. What is an example your listeners might be afraid of doing?

Scott Barlow: Two things pop into my mind. One is the story of Jane. A lot of people mention sales. They have some sales aspect of their role and as I talk to them, or our team does, we tease out what is the sales piece and what are the value subsets. They are ultimately focused on the sales and discomfort

Andy Molinsky: Sales can be about selling a product or yourself in networking. There are lots of things you can do to try and tweak it to make it your own. In a literal sales context, it might be certain language that feels right for you. Maybe it’s critical for you to not only believe in the product but be a client yourself and legitimately use it and love it. There is certain language you use that are touchstones that remind you how it’s something you love or respect. There is a personal connection.

Maybe it’s important to bring someone with you. Maybe you feel more relaxed or the other person does a piece of the sale and you do another. Maybe it’s the good cop, bad cop or you are the opener and they are the closer. Maybe you like to bring a prop. I was afraid of public speaking for years, now I like it a lot. I’ve done it for twenty years. Early on it was terrifying so I brought a prop. It was a special ring that had a stone in it that my great uncle found in the beaches of the south pacific in world war II. It was a tiger’s eye stone he made into a ring when he came back. He wore it for many years. I ultimately inherited it. I used to wear it and it represented courage to me because of what he had to do to get the stone in the ring. I’m stepping into a situation that I need courage. It wasn’t a magic wand but it gave me a little boost. It was secret and private, of course now you all know. I used to wear that.

Not in the sales realm, but I heard a great example from a woman uncomfortable in social situations. She wants to make small talk and schmooze but she goes to social gatherings and sits in the corner and doesn’t say anything. She is interested in photography. She had an epiphany to bring a selfie stick to these situations. She puts her iPhone on the stick and people come over and want to try it. She goes from wallflower to someone engaged in the conversation and meeting people by taking photos and getting emails to send the photos all through this prop. We could go on and on but the point is there are a myriad of ways you can thoughtfully tweak a situation to make it that just little more comfortable for you to step outside your comfort zone.

Scott Barlow: That is fantastic for a couple different reasons. I see so many people fall into the trap that we think we have to do something outside our comfort zone in a particular way. We help people move past their comfort zones intentionally and a lot of times, I didn’t realize, we are helping them customize and move past the barrier that we have to do it in a certain way.

Andy Molinsky: I find the same thing. It’s almost as if, I think in terms of images, and the image of an archery target pulls up. There is this idea you have to hit the bull’s eye dead on but there are rings outside of it that are the zones of acceptability and you have to find the zone that fits for you.

Scott Barlow: That is fantastic! One last question on how some of this fits together particularly around customization. We talked about authenticity and I think people struggle with that one, at least people listening. Their work or pieces of it feel inauthentic and I’m curious about what advice you have. How should they think about keeping going or taking these pieces and customizing it versus getting out and moving to a new thing? I’m not sure I’m articulating it well.

Andy Molinsky: I get what you are saying I think. It’s a question a lot of people have. Before we were on we are were chatting about your audience and I said I had a conversation about this last night with someone. I’m often talking about this exact issue of changing careers. It’s a really hard question to answer in the abstract. I think sometimes there are mistakes people make thinking about in terms of authenticity for example. Do you have more power and control than you think you do? Are there ways to tweak, adjust or craft your role either on your own or by asking, if you have a supervisor, to introduce other elements that might fit better and be more authentic?

Sometimes people desperately want to be able to express a part of themselves they feel they have to suppress at work. Having an outlet outside of work is often quite useful in two ways 1) it could fulfill that need and it reduces the anger that you might have around your work and 2) you might discover aspects of your work you don’t mind once you are able to express that unexpressed piece. Nowadays in the gig economy a lot of people are having side hustles where they can do something more authentic. If they do it outside of work maybe it’s a bridge to switch careers. Starting small and potentially expanding.

There are some environments that are just plain toxic or not a good fit. I wouldn’t want to give the advice to people that it’s your mistake because you aren’t figuring out how to customize it or make it work when it’s truly toxic. One hint about that is remember from a statistical standpoint you are an “n” of one. If you are making judgments of the toxicity of a culture it’s useful to get other perspectives. If you see others are agreeing with you that it’s stifling, you are getting a more valid view that is less biased. That might give you more motivation to say it isn’t for you. Those are some general touchpoints to think about it. It’s a very personal situation and story that everyone has.

Scott Barlow: It is. There is not a one size fits all to move through that problem that many people face. I love the couple approaches that you mentioned particularly the last one on pulling in more data points to know if it’s a you thing or an everybody thing.

This has been absolutely fantastic and I highly recommend the book. It’s called Reach: A New s
Strategy to Help You Step Outside Your Comfort Zone, Rise to the Challenge, and Build Confidence.
I recommend it and I enjoyed it and it’s the reason we wanted you on the show. I appreciate you taking the time and making the time. How can people that want the book or to learn more about you and your work do that?

Andy Molinsky: Sure, I’d love to hear from people so please connect. The easiest way is www.andymolinsky.com. There are links to my social media – LinkedIn, Facebook, and Twitter. I have tons of articles, resources, and quizzes, and fun stuff to dig into. I’d love to connect so please visit me there.

Scott Barlow: Very cool. Thanks again I really appreciate it Andy.

Andy Molinsky: This was really fun thanks for having me.